ENGLAND, Countess Gundred

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--Other Fields Ref Number: 1140 The marriage of Duke William, and the circumstances in which it took place, were sensibly to affect the position of the duke in his duchy, and indeed the place he was to occupy in the political structure of western Europe. And no event in his career has given rise to more controversial discussion. Much speculation has, for instance, taken place as to the ecclesiastical objections to the match, and the nature of the consanguinity (if such existed) between William and Matilda. At one time it was held that when William sought her hand, Matilda was already the wife of a certain Gerbod, by whom she had a daughter, Gundrada, who later became the wife of William of Warenne, the first Earl of Surrey. This, however, has not been finally disproved, and it is in the highest degree improbably that Matilda was married to anyone before the Conqueror. Some other explanation has therefore to be sought for the ecclesiastical ban on the marriage. It has thus been suggested that both William and Matilda were cousins in the fifth degree, being both directly descended from Rolf the Viking. GIVEN NAMES: Also shown as Gundrada The marriage of Duke William, and the circumstances in which it took place, were sensibly to affect the position of the duke in his duchy, and indeed the place he was to occupy in the political structure of western Europe. And no event in his career has given rise to more controversial discussion. Much speculation has, for instance, taken place as to the ecclesiastical objections to the match, and the nature of the consanguinity (if such existed) between William and Matilda. At one time it was held that when William sought her hand, Matilda was already the wife of a certain Gerbod, by whom she had a daughter, Gundrada, who later became the wife of William of Warenne, the first Earl of Surrey. This, however, has not been finally disproved, and it is in the highest degree improbably that Matilda was married to anyone before the Conqueror. Some other explanation has therefore to be sought for the ecclesiastical ban on the marriage. It has thus been suggested that both William and Matilda were cousins in the fifth degree, being both directly descended from Rolf the Viking. BIRTH: Also shown as Born , Normandy, France. DEATH: Also shown as Died Acre Castle, Norfolk, England. BURIAL: Also shown as Buried Lewes Priory, Sussex, England. GIVEN NAMES: Also shown as Alice GIVEN NAMES: Also shown as Gundrada BIRTH: Also shown as Born , Normandy, France. DEATH: Also shown as Died Acre Castle, Norfolk, England.

Gundred married WARREN, Count William de I in 1077 in Normandy, France. William (son of WARREN, Ralph de and Emma) was born in 1055 in Normandy, France; died on 24 Jun 1088 in Lewes, Sussex, England; was buried in Jun 1088 in Lewes, Sussex, England. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

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MARRIAGE: Also shown as Married Bef 1077 MARRIAGE: Also shown as Married Bef 1077 ~SEALING_SPOUSE: Also shown as SealSp 2 Mar 1955, SLAKE.

1. WARREN, Earl William de II was born in 1071 in Vermandois, Neustrasia, France; died on 11 May 1138 in Lewes, Sussex, England; was buried in May 1138 in , Lewes, Sussex, England.
2. WARREN, Reginald de was born about 1082 in Sussex, England; died in DECEASED.
3. WARREN, Edith de was born about 1084 in Sussex, England; died in DECEASED.
4. WARREN, Gundred de was born about 1085 in Acre, Norfolk, England; died after 1166.

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Duke of Normandy --Other Fields Ref Number: 1710 Descent From the English Crown - William I (1025-1087, King of England (see #8 Pg. 5 of this file) a son of Robert I (The Devil), Duke of Normandy and Arletta, a Tanner's daughter of Falise, Normandy, born in 1025. He became William II, the Duke of Normandy in 1035, upon his father's death, until 1077 when his son Robert II became Duke. The father of Duke William, Robert I was son of the Richard II, from 1041 to 1066, was a son of Aethelred "the Unready," King of England from 968 to 1016 and a Norman woman, Emma, the King's second marriage Emma was a sister of Duke Richard II of Normandy, thus King Aethelred was a brother-in-law of Duke Richard II and uncle by marriage to Duke William II of Normandy. King Edward and William were cousins and so, in 1051, King Edward, whose only son had died, promised the Throne of England, upon his death to the Norman Duke, William II. The King died on Jan. 5, 1066. Immediately, Harold, a son of Goadwine, Earl of Essex and father-in-law of King Edward, had practically ruled England for several years, placed himself upon the Throne as King Harold of England. Upon hearing of this, Duke William II prepared for an invasion of England and, in Sept. of 1066, he did so to claim his Kingship. His army met that of Harold's at the celebrated "Battle of Hastings," or Senlac, on Oct. 14, 1066, in which Harold was throughly defeated and slain. On Dec. 25, 1066 he was crowned King William I of England and thereafter was known as "William the Conqueror." He was a progressive and industrious king who ruled his subjects firmly but well. One of his great achievements was the compiling of the "Doomsday Book" in 1085, a census which stands even today as an outstanding work of all time. His reign was stormy at home and abroad, being in intermittent war with his own son, Robert II, Duke of Normandy and Britany, and with King Philip I, of France. It was during a battle against the latter that he was injured by falling from his horse and died at Rouen, Normandy, Sept. 9th, 1087. William I was married, 1053, to Princess Mathilda, A Flemish daughter of Baldwin V, Count of Flanders, France. To this marriage were born four sons and five daughters: 1. Eldest son, ca. 1054-1084 d. before the father, William I. 2. Robert II ca. 1055-1134 was not considered by his father, as possessing qualities for a King but was made Duke of Normandy, 1077. 3. William II ca. 1056-1100, was chosen to be King at his father's death. 4. Henry I 1068-1135 also became King at death of William II, brother 5. One daughter, Adela md. Count Stephen of Blois (France), whose 3rd son Stephen, became King of England in 1135. ... . ------------------------------ Harris Descent From Norman and English Royal Lines- William II, 1025-1087, 7th Duke of Normandy from 1035-1077. When his son, Robert became Duke of Normandy, William II invaded England in 1066 and became known as 'William the Conqueror' and crowned William I, King of England. He married Matilda, Princess daughter of Baldwin V, Count of Flanders, France. She died in 1903 ------------------- William "the Conqueror," King of England and Duke of Normandy. He succeeded his father as Duke of Normandy in 1035. The history of Normandy claims that William was able to secure from Edward "the Confessor," King of England, the right to succeed to the Throne of England upon Edward's death. He married, c1050, Matilda, daughter of Baudouin V, Count of Flanders. Edward died in January of 1066 Norman Conquest. Harold, son of Godwin, Earl of Wessex, succeeded Edward. William began to build an army and navy to invade England and make his claim good. He landed in October 1066 and defeated Harold at the Battle of Hastings. He was crowned King at Westminster Abbey on December 25, 1066. He built many castles throughout his new kingdom including the White Tower in London. He compiled the famous Domesday Book which listed all the estates in England. He was a good organizer as well as good soldier and by the time he died in 1087 Norman rule was firmly established. Ref: Famous Cambridge Men and Women - Hereward of the Fens (The Wake) (11 century) Leader (1070-71) of a revolt against William the Conqueror. Possibly the tenant of the abbey of Peterborough. Hereward and his followers sacked the abbey, perhaps in protest against the appointment of a Norman abbot. He fled to the Isle of Ely, and a band of other refugees, including Morcar, gathered round him. In 1071 King William beseiged the Isle, but Hereward escaped. His later life is obscure, but he may have been reconciled to William. He became the subject of many legends and is the hero of Charles Kingsley's last completed novel, Hereward the Wake (1866). -------------------------- Conclusion - The world It would seem possible that, even with a lot of geographical separation, the MRCA of the entire world is still within historical times, 3000 BC - 1000 AD. Quite likely the entire world is descended from the Ancient Egyptian royal house , c. 1600 BC. (We pick them as an example because they left proven descents for centuries, so it seems likely their descents did not die out, and they are ancestors of some people alive today. Hence probably ancestors of all people alive today.) The interbreeding world The MRCA of almost all of the world is in historical times, quite possibly in classical times, even AD. By "almost all" I mean over 90 percent of the world, including all of the West, almost all of Asia, and most of Africa. Only cases of extreme geographical isolation could prevent this being the whole world, leaving some aboriginal populations out of this recent family tree. If populations were truly geographically isolated for thousands of years then the MRCA of the entire world may be thousands of years ago. Though even that is not certain since there has been a certain amount of interbreeding since these populations were re-contacted in the last few hundred years. And we only need a small amount of interbreeding to get everyone descended from Europeans. That is, we just need to get them genealogically descended, even if it doesn't show in the DNA - even if the European DNA has been swamped by the rest. Quite likely almost everyone in the world descends from Confucius , c. 500 BC. We pick him as an example because he is the proven ancestor of some people alive today. Hence probably the ancestor of all people alive today. The West The MRCA of the West is in historical times, quite possibly as recent as 1000 AD. Quite likely everyone in the West descends from Charlemagne , c. 800 AD. We pick him as an example because he is the proven ancestor of some people alive today (for example, he is a proven ancestor of my children). Hence probably the ancestor of all people alive today. By the same reasoning, as well as from Continental/pre-Norman figures like Charlemagne, quite likely everyone in the West descends from figures like: The English/Saxon/pre-Royal Cerdic , c. 500 AD. The Irish/Celtic Niall of the Nine Hostages , c. 450 AD. Discussion There are some interesting consequences of this world view. Islam, Christianity and Judaism Quite likely every Muslim in the world today descends from the Prophet Muhammad , c. 600 AD. The Prophet is the proven ancestor of some Muslims alive today, hence probably ancestor of all of them. Quite likely everyone in the West descends from the Prophet Muhammad , c. 600 AD. There are also many known or suspected Muslim-Christian crossovers, in particular in medieval Spain. Even if specific ones, such as Zaida, dau of the Emir of Seville , are disproved, our model suggests that there will be others. With the Muslim population of medieval Spain descended from the Prophet, it is almost impossible for the Christian population to stay separate. All we need is a tiny amount of interbreeding and fairly soon all the Christian population are descended from the Prophet too, and hence most or all of the West today. And, as we just said, we even have some actual candidates such as Zaida, or Mawiyah, dau of the Caliph of Cordoba . The number of actual Muslim-Christian matings must be much higher than the few that we can prove. Religious barriers can't seriously push back the MRCA, only geographical barriers can . Quite likely almost every Jew in the world today descends from the Prophet Muhammad , c. 600 AD. By the same logic, there were Jews in medieval Spain, and it's hard to see them staying separate from the gradual descent of all of Muslim and Christian Spain from the Prophet. Again, all we need is a tiny amount of interbreeding for this to happen. And later the Jews of Spain were expelled , and are probably hence the ancestors of much or most of the world's Jews today. It is interesting to think that every Palestinian suicide bombing attack on Israel is almost certainly some descendants of the Prophet killing other descendants of the Prophet. Of course ultimately the whole world will descend from the Prophet. In fact, this may already be true! Alternative History If you have a line of descendants that doesn't die out, eventually you are the ancestor of the whole future world. Through this, you affect all future world history. If the humblest Ancient Egyptian peasant had done anything different (even just had sex five minutes earlier), there would have been no Jesus, no St.Paul, Muhammad, Copernicus, Newton, Darwin, Marx, Freud, Lenin, Stalin, Hitler or Mao. There would have been no Christianity, Islam, Marxism, Freudianism, communism, Nazism or Maoism. - These are belief systems, collections of beliefs accepted due to charismatic founders. There would still have been Copernicanism, Newtonianism and Darwinism. - These are discoveries about the world, that would be made no matter what. Science would still be here, but the religions and totalitarian systems would be different. There may have been no Holocaust. There may have been global nuclear war. Humanity might be extinct. The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History by Michael H. Hart Links - Gary Boyd Roberts Comments on Royal Descent - "probably sixty percent or more of the American people are descended from kings" Roberts also says "Anthropologists claim everyone on earth is a 40th cousin" (i.e. any pair of 2 people can find at least 1 common ancestor since about 800 AD). Jack Lee - Everyone is Descended From Charlemagne There was a discussion about this topic in the Journal of the Northumberland and Durham FHS in 1997-98. See The Ancestor Paradox by Brian Pears. Basically, Brian Pears is right in his conclusions and his critics are wrong. Andrew Millard , Department of Archaeology, University of Durham. Probability of descending from Edward III nicely illustrates that you only need one ancestor to get the Royal Descent. (In his calculations, the odds of any one of your ancestors in 1600 AD not descending from Edward III might be quite high (something like 0.999) but the odds of all of them not descending from Edward III would be tiny (something like 0.999). He concludes that almost every modern English person with predominantly English ancestry descends from Edward III, and Edward III probably has something like 100 million descendants across the West. SURNAME: Also shown as Normandy SUFFIX: Also shown as The Conqueror, King of England BIRTH: Also shown as Born , Falaise, Calvados, France. DEATH: Also shown as Died Hermenbraville, Seine, France. BURIAL: Also shown as Buried Abbey of St. Stephan, Caen, , France.

William married FLANDERS, Dutchess Mathilda in 1050 in Cath Notre Dame D'eu Castle, Angi, Normandy, France. Mathilda (daughter of FLANDERS, Count Baldwin and FRANCE, Countess Alix Capet) was born in 1031 in Flandre, France; died on 2 Nov 1083 in Caen, Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France; was buried in Nov 1083 in Caen, Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

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--Other Fields Ref Number: 1709 The marriage of Duke William, and the circumstances in which it took place, were sensibly to affect the position of the duke in his duchy, and indeed the place he was to occupy in the political structure of western Europe. And no event in his career has given rise to more controversial discussion. Much speculation has, for instance, taken place as to the ecclesiastical objections to the match, and the nature of the consanguinity (if such existed) between William and Matilda. At one time it was held that when William sought her hand, Matilda was already the wife of a certain Gerbod, by whom she had a daughter, Gundrada, who later became the wife of William of Warenne, the first Earl of Surrey. This, however, has not been finally disproved, and it is in the highest degree improbably that matilda was married to anyone before the Conqueror. Some other explanation has therefore to be sought for the ecclesiastical ban on the marriage. It has thus been suggested that both William and Matilda were cousins in the fifth degree, being both directly descended from Rolf the Viking...The view once held that Matilda was already married when William sought her hand, and was then the mother of a daughter, Gundrada, later the wife of William of Warenne, has now been conclusively disproved by the researches of Chester Waters and Sir Charles Clay. There is no reason to suppose that Gundrada was the daughter (?)eith of William or Matilda. --------------------------------------- Matilda of Flanders From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Matilda of Flanders A Victorian romantic artist's impression of Matilda from "Queens of England" - 1894 Queen consort of the EnglishTenure 25 December 1066 - 2 November 1083 Coronation 11 May 1068 Queen consort of the Norman Tenure1053 - 2 November 1083 SpouseWilliam I the Conqueror among others Issue Robert II of Normandy William II of England Adela, Countess of Blois Henry I of England House Norman dynasty FatherBaldwin V, Count of Flanders MotherAdela of France Born c.1031 Died 2 November 1083 (aged c. 52)Burial l'Abbaye aux Dames Caen , Normandy Matilda of Flanders (French : Mathilde de Flandre; Dutch : Mathilda van Vlaanderen) (c. 1031 - 2 November 1083) was the wife of William the Conqueror and, as such, Queen consort of the Kingdom of England . She bore William eleven children, including two kings, William II and Henry I Contents 1 Marriage 2 Height 3 Issue 4 In popular culture 5 Ancestry 6 Footnotes Marriage Matilda, or Maud, was the daughter of Baldwin V, Count of Flanders and Adèle Capet , herself daughter of Robert II of France . According to legend, when Duke William II of Normandy (later known as William the Conqueror) sent his representative to ask for Matilda's hand in marriage, she told the representative that she was far too high-born, to consider marrying a bastard . After hearing this response, William rode from Normandy to Bruges , found Matilda on her way to church, and dragged her off her horse by her long braids , threw her down in the street in front of her flabbergasted attendants, and rode off. Another version of the story states that William rode to Matilda's father's house in Lille, threw her to the ground in her room (again, by the braids), and hit her (or violently battered her) before leaving. Naturally, Baldwin took offense at this but, before they drew swords , Matilda settled the matter[1] by agreeing to marry him, and even a papal ban on the grounds of consanguinity did not dissuade her. They were married in 1053. There were rumors that Matilda had been in love with the English ambassador to Flanders , a Saxon named Brihtric, who declined her advances. Whatever the truth of the matter, years later when she was acting as Regent for William in England, she used her authority to confiscate Brihtric's lands and throw him into prison, where he died. When William was preparing to invade England, Matilda outfitted a ship, the Mora, out of her own money and gave it to him. For many years it was thought that she had some involvement in the creation of the Bayeux Tapestry (commonly called La Tapisserie de la Reine Mathilde in French), but historians no longer believe that; it seems to have been commissioned by William's half-brother Odo, Bishop of Bayeux , and made by English artists in Kent . Matilda bore William eleven children, and he was believed to have been faithful to her, at least up until the time their son Robert rebelled against his father and Matilda sided with Robert against William. After she died, in 1083 at the age of 51, William became tyrannical, and people blamed it on his having lost her. Contrary to the belief that she was buried at St. Stephen's, also called l'Abbaye-aux-Hommes in Caen , Normandy , where William was eventually buried, she is intombed at l'Abbaye aux Dames , which is the Sainte-Trinité church, also in Caen. Of particular interest is the 11th century slab, a sleek black stone decorated with her epitaph, marking her grave at the rear of the church. It is of special note since the grave marker for William was replaced as recently as the beginning of the 19th century. Height Reputed to be 4'2" (127 cm) tall, Matilda was England's smallest queen, according to the Guinness Book of Records . However, in 1819 and 1959 Matilda's incomplete skeleton was examined in France, and her bones were measured to determine her height. The 1819 estimate was under five feet, while the 1959 estimate was 5' (152 cm) tall. A reputed height of 4'2" (127 cm) appeared at some point after 1959 in the non-scientific literature, misrepresenting the 1959 measurement.[2] Issue Some doubt exists over how many daughters there were. This list includes some entries which are obscure. Robert Curthose (c. 1054 - 1134), Duke of Normandy, married Sybil of Conversano , daughter of Geoffrey of Conversano Adeliza (or Alice) (c. 1055 - ?), reportedly betrothed to Harold II of England (Her existence is in some doubt.) Cecilia (or Cecily) (c. 1056 - 1126), Abbess of Holy Trinity, Caen William Rufus (1056 - 1100), King of the English Richard, Duke of Bernay (1057 - c. 1081), killed by a stag in New Forest Adela (c. 1062 - 1138), married Stephen, Count of Blois Agatha (c. 1064 - c. 1080), betrothed to (1) Harold of Wessex , (2) Alfonso VI of Castile Constance (c. 1066 - 1090), married Alan IV Fergent , Duke of Brittany ; poisoned, possibly by her own servants Matilda (very obscure, her existence is in some doubt) Henry Beauclerc (1068-1135), King of England, married (1) Edith of Scotland , daughter of Malcolm III, King of Scotland , (2) Adeliza of Louvain Gundred (c. 1063 - 1085), wife of William de Warenne (c. 1055 - 1088), was formerly thought of as being yet another of Matilda's daughters, with speculation that she was William I's full daughter, a stepdaughter, or even a foundling or adopted daughter. However, this connection to William I has now been firmly debunked. Matilda was a seventh generation direct descendent of Alfred the Great . Her marriage to William strengthened his claim to the throne. All sovereigns of England, Great Britain and the United Kingdom have been descended from her, as is the present Queen Elizabeth II . In popular culture Her love for her husband is referenced in the Award-winning play, Angels in America . On screen, Matilda has been portrayed by Jane Wenham in the two-part BBC TV play Conquest (1966), part of the series Theatre 625 , and by Anna Calder-Marshall in the TV drama Blood Royal: William the Conqueror (1990). Ancestry Ancestors of Matilda of Flanders 16. Baldwin III, Count of Flanders 18. Arnulf II, Count of Flanders 17. Mathilde Billung of Saxony 4. Baldwin IV, Count of Flanders 18. Berengar 9. Rozala of Italy 19. Willa of Tuscany 2. Baldwin V, Count of Flanders 20. Siegfried, Count of Luxembourg 10. Frederick of Luxembourg 21. Hedwig of Nordgau 5. Ogive of Luxembourg 22. Heribert von der Wetteraunt 11. Ermentrude, Countess of Gleibergnt 23. Irmintrudis von Avalgaunt 1. Matilda of Flanders 24. Hugh the Great 12. Hugh Capet 25. Hedwige of Saxony 6. Robert II of France 26. William III, Duke of Aquitaine 13. Adelaide of Aquitaine 27. Adèle of Normandy 3. Adela of France 28. Boso II, Count of Arles 14. William I, Count of Provence 29. Constancen 7. Constance of Arles 30. Fulk II, Count of Anjou 15. Adelaide of Anjou 31. Gerbergant Footnotes Wikimedia Commons has media related to: Matilda of Flanders ^ Hilliam, Paul (2005). William the Conqueror: First Norman King of England. New York City, New York: Rosen Publishing Group. pp. 20. ISBN 1-4042-0166-1 . Dewhurst, John (1981). "A historical obstetric enigma: how tall was Matilda?". Journal of Obstetrics & Gynaecology 1 (4): 271-272. Royal titlesl Preceded by Edith of Mercia Queen consort of the English 25 December 1066 - 2 November 1083Vacant Title next held byMatilda of Scotland Preceded by Poppa of Envermeu Duchess consort of the Norman 1053 - 2 November 1083Vacant Title next held bySybilla of Conversano • • English Royal Consorts George of Denmark (1702-1707) · Mary of Modena (1685-1688) · Catherine of Braganza (1662-1685) · Henrietta Maria of France (1625-1649) · Anne of Denmark (1603-1619) · (Lord Guilford Dudley ?) (1553) · Catherine Parr (1543-1547) · Catherine Howard (1540-1542) · Anne of Cleves (1540) · Jane Seymour (1536-1537) · Anne Boleyn (1533-1536) · Catherine of Aragon (1509-1533) · Elizabeth of York (1486-1503) · Anne Neville (1483-1485) · Elizabeth Woodville (1464-1483) · Margaret of Anjou (1445-1471) · Catherine of Valois (1420-1422) · Joanna of Navarre (1403-1413) · Isabella of Valois (1396-1399) · Anne of Bohemia (1383-1394) · Philippa of Hainault (1328-1369) · Isabella of France (1308-1327) · Margaret of France (1299-1307) · Eleanor of Castile (1272-1290) · Eleanor of Provence (1236-1272) · Isabella of Angoulême (1200-1216) · Berengaria of Navarre (1191-1199) · Margaret of France (1170-1183) · Eleanor of Aquitaine (1154-1189) · Matilda I of Boulogne (1135-1152) · (Geoffrey V of Anjou ?) (1141) · Adeliza of Louvain (1121-1135) · Matilda of Scotland (1100-1118) · Matilda of Flanders (1066-1083) Retrieved from Categories : English royal consorts | 1030s births | 1083 deaths | English Roman Catholics | French Roman Catholics | House of Flanders | Female regents | Duchesses of Normandy | Regents of England | Medieval women | 11th-century French people | 11th-century English people Hidden categories: Articles containing French language text | Articles containing Dutch language text Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License ; additional terms may apply. See Terms of Use for details. Wikipedia® is a registered trademark of the Wikimedia Foundation, Inc. , a non-profit organization. SURNAME: Also shown as Van Laanderen GIVEN NAMES: Also shown as Matilda BIRTH: Also shown as Born , , Flanders, Belgium. DEATH: Also shown as Died , Caen, Calvados, France. ~SEALING_PARENTS: Also shown as SealPar 20 Jun 1992, LANGE.

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MARRIAGE: Also shown as Married , Angi, Normandy, France.

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--Other Fields Ref Number: 5838 English Monarchs Family Tree - (From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) This is the English monarchs' family tree for England (and Wales after 1282) from William the Conqueror to James I of England. It is split into three sections each containing a mapped image with links to articles in the English Wikipedia. The House of Wessex family tree precedes this family tree and the British monarchs' family tree follows it. The Scottish monarchs' family tree covers the same period in Scotland and also precedes the British monarchs' family tree. 1. The Normans and The Plantagenets 2. Plantagenets (continued), Houses of Lancaster and York 3. House of Tudor 4. See also --- 5. References Note: Dates are birth and death; intermediate dates are accession to throne. Some children and marriages have been omitted and also birth order has not been followed to improve readability. ------------------- Harris Descent From Norman and English Royal Lines- Robert I 'The Devil," 6th Duke of Normandy, 1028-1035, son of Richard II above and father of 'William the Conqueror' by Arletta an unwed daughter of a tanner of Falise. --------------------- GIVEN NAMES: Also shown as Robert,The Magnificent BIRTH: Also shown as Born , Normandy, France. DEATH: Also shown as Died , Nicaea, Bithynia, Turkey.

BURIAL: Also shown as Buried Nicaea Cathedral, Bithynia, Turkey.

~BAPTISM: Also shown as Baptized 19 Nov 1993, ALBER.

~ENDOWMENT: Also shown as Endowed 13 Jul 1994, ALBER.

Robert married FALAISE, Harlette de in 1023 in France. Harlette (daughter of FALAISE, Chamberlain Fulbert de and FALAISE, Princess Doda Duxia) was born on 9 Jun 1003 in Falaise, Calvados, Basse-Normandie, France; died on 23 Apr 1078 in Grestain, Eure, Haute-Normandie, France; was buried in 1097 in Fatouville-Grestain, , Haute-Normandie, France. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

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--Other Fields Ref Number: 5992 --Other Fields Ref Number: 5839 BIRTH: Also shown as Born , Falaise, Calvados, France. DEATH: Also shown as Died 1050

SURNAME: Also shown as Normandy

GIVEN NAMES: Also shown as Harlette Herleva Defalaisse Deconteville

DEATH: Also shown as Died 1050

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~SEALING_SPOUSE: Also shown as SealSp 1 Aug 1924, SLAKE.

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• WAC: 13 Feb 1929, SLAKE

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Here first in Danish: (from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldwin_V,_Count_of_Flanders
which is shown in full - in Memories)

Balduin 5. af Flandern knyttede for en tid Hainaut til sine øvrige besiddelser gennem ægteskab, mens de zeelandske øer derimod gik tabt til greven af Holland.
Sønnen Balduin 6. af Flandern (1067-1071) var gift med Richilde af Hainaut, men overlod ved sin død regeringen til sin broder Robert Friseren af Flandern (1071-1093), der overvandt Richilde ved Cassel i 1071 uden dog at kunne forhindre, at hendes søn tiltrådte regeringen i Hainaut. Robert 2. af Flandern (1093-1111), deltog i det første korstog, hvor man tilbød ham Jerusalems krone, som han dog afslog. Hans søster, Edel, ægtede Knud den Hellige, og da sønnen Balduin 7. af Flandern døde barnløs i 1119, arvede deres søn Karl den Danske Flandern (1119-1127). Han holdt god orden i grevskabet og var en dygtig hersker, hvis ry bredte sig langt ud over landet.
Om hans forbindelse til Danmark vides intet, men som en pudsighed blev hans signet af bly fundet på Hærvejen i Læborg vest for Kolding. At miste sin signet kunne være en katastrofe, da signetets aftryk i seglets voks var bevis for et dokuments ægthed. [Kilde Gyldendal og Politikens Historei, bind 4, side 98].

Baldwin
Dutch: Boudewijn, French: Baudouin, Danish: Baudouin
Also Known As: "Baldwin V Count of Flanders", "Boudewijn V van Vlaanderen", "van Rijsel", "Baudouin le Pieux", "de Lille", "the Pious", "Comte de Flandres", "7th Count of /Flanders", "von Flandern", "Baldwin V", "Count of Flanders", ""King" of Flanders", "Den Fromme", "Balduin von Lille", "The P..."
Birthdate: August 19, 1012 (55)
Birthplace: Flandres, Bihorel, Haute-Normandie, France
Death: September 01, 1067 (55)
Lille, Nord, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France
Place of Burial: St. Pierre, Lille, France
Immediate Family:
Son of Baldwin IV the Bearded, count of Flanders and Ogive of Luxembourg
Husband of Adela of France, countess of Flanders
Father of Baldwin VI, count of Flanders and Hainault; Matilda of Flanders; Robert I, Count of Flanders; Elena de Normandy; Henry of Flanders, [Count]; and Aliz von Peteghem « less
Brother of Hermengarde van Gent, II
Half brother of Judith of Flanders
Occupation: Count of Flandres, DEBONNAIRE', Greve, Duke of Normandy, Duc de Normandie, 5áe Duc de Normandie (vv.1026-1027), 5th Duke of Normandy, Duke Of Normandy (1026- ), Greve av Flandern, Comte de Flandre, @occu00125@, Graaf van Vlaanderen, Count Of Flanders

Baldwin V of Flanders (c. 1012 – 1 September 1067) was Count of Flanders from 1035 until his death.
He was the son of Baldwin IV, Count of Flanders, who died in 1035.
In 1028 Baldwin married Adèle of France in Amiens, daughter of King Robert II of France;[1] at her instigation he rebelled against his father but in 1030 peace was sworn and the old count continued to rule until his death.
During a long war (1046–1056) as an ally of Godfrey the Bearded, Duke of Lorraine, against the Holy Roman Emperor Henry III, he initially lost Valenciennes to Herman, Count of Mons. However, when the latter died in 1049 Baldwin married his son Baldwin VI to Herman's widow Richilde[1] and arranged that the children of her first marriage were disinherited, thus de facto uniting the County of Hainaut with Flanders.[2]
Upon the death of Henry III this marriage was acknowledged by treaty by Agnes de Poitou, mother and regent of Henry IV. Baldwin V played host to a grateful dowager queen Emma of England, during her enforced exile, at Bruges.[3] He supplied armed security guards, entertainment, comprising a band of minstrels. Bruges was a bustling commercial centre, and Emma fittingly grateful to the citizens. She dispensed generously to the poor, making contact with the monastery of Saint Bertin at St Omer, and received her son, King Harthacnut of England at Bruges in 1039.
From 1060 to 1067 Baldwin was the co-Regent with Anne of Kiev for his nephew-by-marriage Philip I of France, indicating the importance he had acquired in international politics.[4] As Count of Maine, Baldwin supported the King of France in most affairs. But he was also father-in-law to William of Normandy, who had married his daughter Matilda. Flanders played a pivotal role in Edward the Confessor's foreign policy. As the King of England was struggling to find an heir: historians have argued that he may have sent Harold Godwinsson to negotiate the return of Edward the Atheling from Hungary, and passed through Flanders, on his way to Germany. Baldwin's half-sister had married Earl Godwin's third son, Tostig.[2] The half-Viking Godwinsons had spent their exile in Dublin, at a time William of Normandy was fiercely defending his duchy. It is unlikely however that Baldwin intervened to prevent the duke's invasion plans of England, after the Count had lost the conquered province of Ponthieu. Baldwin died 1 September 1067.[4]
Family:
Baldwin and Adèle had:
Baldwin VI, 1030–1070[1]
Matilda, c. 1031–1083 who married William the Conqueror[1]
Robert I of Flanders, c. 1033–1093[1]
References:
1. Oksanen 2012, p. xii.
2. Oksanen 2012, p. 12.
3. Oksanen 2012, p. 11.
4. Oksanen 2012, p. 257.
Bibliography:
Frans J. Van Droogenbroeck, De markenruil Ename – Valenciennes en de investituur van de graaf van Vlaanderen in de mark Ename, Handelingen van de Geschied- en Oudheidkundige Kring van Oudenaarde 55 (2018) S. 47-127
Oksanen, Eljas (2012). Flanders and the Anglo-Norman World, 1066-1216. Cambridge University Press

Baldwin married FRANCE, Countess Alix Capet about 1028 in Paris, France. Alix (daughter of FRANCE, King Robert II and TOULOUSE, Constance de) was born on 5 Mar 1009 in Toulouse, Haute-Garonne, Midi-Pyrenees, France; was christened on 21 May 1009; died on 8 Jan 1079 in L'ordest Benoist, Messines, France; was buried in Jan 1079 in The Benedictine Convent of Messines, Mesen, West Flanders, Belgium. [Group Sheet] [Family Chart]

Other Events and Attributes:

• _TAG: Reviewed on FS

Notes:

Please see the English text below!
Adela af Frankrig (den Hellige eller Adela af Messines) blev født i 1009 eller måske i 1014 og døde 8. januar 1079, og blev begravet i Kloster Messines ved Ypern i Belgien. Hun stammede fra Kapetinger dynastiet, som indtil hendes tid havde stillet kongerne til Frankrig. Hun var som hustru til Balduin 5. fra 1036 til 1067 grevinde af Flandern. Hun omtales ofte som Adélaide, Adelheid, Aelis eller Alix.
Adelas far var kapetingeren Robert 2. den Fromme, konge af Frankrig 996-1031. Adela var datter af hans tredie ægteskab med Constanze af Provence.
Adela blev i 1027 forlovet med Richard 3. af Normandiet, den tredie hertug af Normandiet. Om denne forlovelse førte til ægteskab er uvist, da Richard døde samme år.
I året 1028 blev Adela gift med Balduin 5. (den Fromme eller den Lille) af Flandern, der var født 1012 i Arras og død 1. september 1067 i Lille og var greve af Flandern fra 1036-1067.
Fra dette ægteskab er der tre børn:
Balduin 6. af Flandern født ca. 1030 og død 17. juli 1070 efterfulgte sin far som greve af Flandern.
Robert Friseren af Flandern født ca. 1035 og død 3. oktober 1093. Han blev i 1071 greve af Flandern (efter broderen).
Mathilde af Flandern født ca. 1032 og død 2. november 1084, blev i 1053 gift med hertug Wilhelm 2. af Normandiet. Denne erobrede England i 1066, og blev som Wilhelm 1. konge af England og huskes i historien som Wilhelm Erobreren.
Adelas indflydelse tilskreves, at hun og Balduin fik overdraget opdragelsen af den 7-årige Philipp 1. af Frankrig, da dennes far og Balduins bror, den franske kong Henrik 1., døde og samtidig blev regent af Frankrig fra 1060 til 1067. Adela havde især stor del af æren for Balduin den 5.'s kirkelige reformpolitik og inspirerede også sin ægtefælle i mange andre kirkelige spørgsmål. Direkte eller indirekte kan man takke hende for oprettelsen af kirkerne i Aire (1049) og Harelbeke (1064) samt klostrene i Messine i Belgien (1057) og Ename (1063). Efter Balduins død i 1067 rejste Adele til Rom og modtog nonnesløret af pave Alexander II og trådte efter sin hjemkomst ind som nonne i Benediktinerordenen i Messines. Der blev hun til sin død. Hendes mindedag er den 8. september.

As written in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adela_of_France:
Adela of France, known also as Adela the Holy or Adela of Messines; (1009 – 8 January 1079, Messines), was, by marriage, the Duchess of Normandy (January 1027 – August 1027), Countess of Flanders (1035–1067).

Adela was the second daughter of Robert II (the Pious), and Constance of Arles. She is usually identified with the noble Adèle who in January 1027 married Richard III, Duke of Normandy. The marriage was short-lived for on 6 August of that same year Richard III suddenly died. Adèle of France married Baldwin V, Count of Flanders in 1028.
Adela's influence lay mainly through her family connections. On the death of her brother, Henry I of France, the guardianship of his seven-year-old son Philip I fell jointly on his widow, Anne of Kiev, and on his brother-in-law, Adela's husband, so that from 1060 to 1067, they were regents of France.
In 1071, Adela's third son, Robert the Frisian, planned to invade Flanders even though at that time the Count of Flanders was Adela's grandson, Arnulf III. When she heard about Robert's plans, she asked Philip I to stop him. Philip sent soldiers to support Arnulf including a contingent of ten Norman knights led by William FitzOsborn. Robert's forces attacked Arnulf's numerically superior army at Cassel before it could organize, and Arnulf was killed along with William FitzOsborn. Robert's overwhelming victory led to Philip making peace with Robert and investing him as Count of Flanders. A year later, Philip married Robert's stepdaughter, Bertha of Holland, and in 1074, Philip restored the seigneurie of Corbie to the crown.
Adela had a strong interest in Baldwin V’s church reforms and was behind her husband’s founding of several collegiate churches. Directly or indirectly, she was responsible for establishing the Colleges of Aire (1049), Lille (1050) and Harelbeke (1064) as well as the abbeys of Messines (1057) and Ename (1063). After Baldwin’s death in 1067, she went to Rome, took the nun’s veil from the hands of Pope Alexander II and retired to the Benedictine convent of Messines, near Ypres. There she later died and was buried at the convent. Honoured as a saint in the Roman Catholic Church, her commemoration day is 8 September.



Once upon a time, a couple named Hezo and Ida, from a West Flanders town called Wervik or Wervicq, had three beautiful daughters named Helwigis, Jutta, and Giselindis. These three girls were walking in the forest when they were accosted by three foresters bent on rape, and not picky about whether they killed them in the process. The girls begged to be allowed to pray, and the amused gang let them. They prayed to Our Lady to die rather than be raped, and instantly the ground collapsed underneath them and buried them completely. The foresters were terrified and reported themselves to the authorities. They ended up becoming extremely penitent monks.

This is the sort of thing that happens in some European miracle stories, but this time the authorities reported to higher authorities, who interested themselves in the story. The Count of Flanders, Baudouin V, had a mayor of his household that was called Landry, who had become totally paralyzed. He ended up visiting the giant sinkhole in the forest, and was totally healed in a moment. Baudouin’s wife Adela (aka Adele of France, daughter of King Robert II of France, mother-in-law of William the Conqueror and sister-in-law of the annoying Tostig) was impressed and grateful. So the Countess showed up and had the earth collapse excavated. To everyone’s surprise, the three girls’ bodies were found still incorrupt after two years, looking as if they’d fallen asleep and still kneeling, still with folded hands. They had obviously died instantly.

So Countess Adela had the girls’ bodies buried in a church she built in 1057, out in the forest near the earth collapse area. (The church stayed standing during medieval times, but no longer exists.) It was dedicated to Mary the Thrice Holy Virgin. She also founded an abbey nearby which was called Meyssen, Meessen, or Messines, which was supposed to mean “daughter” in Flemish. The new Benedictine convent started out with thirty nuns of noble birth, and twelve experienced canonesses (I guess to keep an eye on the thirty nuns). The convent and church became the center of a little town, and the shrine was famous for healings.

Countess Adela retired there after her husband’s death, and one night she saw an apparition of the Virgin Mary herself. Countess Adela possessed a splinter of the True Cross (showing that she had some kind of Byzantine diplomatic connections, or that she’d made off with her husband’s relic). Mary ordered her not to keep this relic to herself and the nuns, but to let all the faithful come see it. In the morning, the countess thought this was just a dream and ignored it, but she dreamed it twice more. The third time, Mary told her that she would receive a sign that it was a true command from God. In the morning, she would see a red thread running up to the altar of the church. She was to pick up this cord, wind it around her hand, and follow it with her reliquary wherever it went, until it ran out. That would be the route of the True Cross procession.

Countess Adela found the thread in the morning, and was so shocked and penitent about her disbelief that they say she followed the route on her hands and knees that first time, and the rest of the ladies in the convent followed her, including the normally-enclosed nuns; and the villagers and farmers who saw the procession followed too.

And so, every year on September the 14th, there was a procession along that route on the feast of the Exaltation of the True Cross, and they exhibited the little sacred splinter to the faithful. The procession continues even today. It is called the Grote Keer, or the Great Time, and it’s a nine-days procession. They process every day from September 14 until September 22. The procession route goes all around the town of Mesen for over 6 kilometers. At times the route travels through fields, where each year the farmers harvest a row of crops early to permit the procession to pass. During the Great Time, the church is open for pilgrims to visit.

Countess Adela ended up being canonized, as St. Adela of Mesen or St. Adele of Messines. Her old feastday is on January 8 and her new feastday is on September 8, so you get two namedays!

Flanders ended up going through a fair amount of both prosperity and wars. There were two big Battles of Messines in World War I, and the Germans and Allies blew the heck out of each other across their lines. Finally after weeks and months of secretly planting explosives underneath the hills that the Germans used to fortify their lines, the British forces blew them all up at once. The explosion was heard all the way in London, and the tremors from it were mistaken for an earthquake even by seismologists.

Three German soldiers were found in an underground bunker, dead from explosive shock but without a mark on them. They looked as if they had fallen asleep.

After the abbey died out and various wars had passed through, a smaller church had been built dedicated to St. Nicholas, with a little chapel to Our Lady. The upstairs bits have been reconstructed many times, but Countess St. Adela is still buried in its medieval crypt. The WWI Germans dug up the crypt again, by chance, and set up an aid station down in the crypt with Adela.

There’s apparently a sign that informs you that Corporal Adolf Hitler was treated there.

Not everybody makes good use of a miraculous second chance.

Pictures of St. Nicholas Church in Mesen, including the medieval crypt.

Picture of the modern copy of the medieval wooden statue of Our Lady of Mesen, which was destroyed during WWI.

Embroidery wonderfully returned to St. Nicholas Church and Our Lady of Messines.

A little porcelain devotional statue from Messines, also returned with gratitude.

A picture of Countess Adela and the apparition of Our Lady and the Christ Child, in Mons, at the parish of Notre Dame de Messines.

A statue of Onze Lieve Vrouwe de Mesen, in Mons, at the parish of Notre Dame de Messines, clearly modeled after the painting in the parish. You can clearly see the Christ Child holding the True Cross reliquary.

Weirdly, however, the city-folk have put Mesen totally out of their minds, even though it’s right down the road! The current legend is that the painting comes from Messina in Italy (also spelled “Messine” in French). But there’s poor St. Adela, large as life. It must be WWI trauma. Anyway, the painting used to be out in a cemetery chapel, but was moved inside the church after miracles happened. There’s a parish feast (“Ducasse de Messines”) for Our Lady of Messines on March 25, the feast of the Annunciation; it used to be on July 2, the feast of the Visitation.

A old Flemish novena of Our Lady of Mesen, from a holy card, which notes her in the 19th century as a patron against sciatica and gout:

(English translation via Google Translate and human smoothing:)

Whoever is in any emergency shall have recourse to Mary, and he will read the following prayer for nine days in church or at home, before a picture of Mary, in memory of the nine months that Christ Our Savior spent in the shelter of Our Lady’s virginity.

Prayer:
O blessed Virgin Mary, chosen from among all creatures by God the Father to be the mother of His only Son, Jesus — have pity on me. I ask thee for the unutterable joy which thou felt in thy Heart, and for the manifold graces which thou obtained, when the Fruit of Compassion was placed into thy virgin body. I now take recourse to thee. Stand by me in my emergency. I hope with certainty that thou shalt intercede for me.

Our Lady of Mesen, graciously hear the nine Hail Marys which I am about to read in thy honor. Help me with my request, if this favor will be useful and wholesome to me.

[And then you say nine Hail Marys.]

Novene ter eere van Onze Lieve Vrouw van Meesen

Alwie in eenigen nood verkeert zal zijne toevlucht tot Maria nemen, en negen dagen lang zal hij in eene kerk of te huis, voor een beeldeken van Maria het volgende gebed lezen, ter herinnering der negen maanden welke Christus Onze Zaligmaker doorgebracht heeft in den maagdelijken school van Onze Lieve Vrouw.

Gebed:
O gezegende Maagd Maria! tusschenalle schepselen door God den Vader uitverkoren om Moeder te worden van zijnen eenigen Zoon Jesus, heb medelijden metmij; ik bid U ef om door de nuitssprekilijke vreugd welke Gij in uw Hert gevoeld hebt en door de menigvuldige genaden welke Gij hebt verkregen wanneer de Vrucht van Bermhertigheid in uw maagdelijk lichaam verloefde. Ik neem nu mijnen toevlucht tot U, sta mij bij in mijnen nood, ik hoop vastelijk dat Gij mij zult verhooren.

Onze Lieve Vrouw van Meesen, aanhoor met welgevallen de negen Wees-Gegroeten welke ik ler uwer eere ga lezen, verkrijg mij wal ik verzoek indien nochtans deze gunst mij nuttig en heilzaam is… Amen.

[Negen Wees-Gegroeten.]

UPDATE: There’s a mysterious group of three virgin saints in Germany whose story and actual names have been forgotten; they’re known as the Three Beten. Possibly they are meant to be these three Flemish girls.

Also, Belgium sits on top of a lot of limestone and a big aquifer, so sinkholes do happen. One recently opened up next to the central train station in Brussels.

As written in: Once upon a time, a couple named Hezo and Ida, from a West Flanders town called Wervik or Wervicq, had three beautiful daughters named Helwigis, Jutta, and Giselindis. These three girls were walking in the forest when they were accosted by three foresters bent on rape, and not picky about whether they killed them in the process. The girls begged to be allowed to pray, and the amused gang let them. They prayed to Our Lady to die rather than be raped, and instantly the ground collapsed underneath them and buried them completely. The foresters were terrified and reported themselves to the authorities. They ended up becoming extremely penitent monks.

This is the sort of thing that happens in some European miracle stories, but this time the authorities reported to higher authorities, who interested themselves in the story. The Count of Flanders, Baudouin V, had a mayor of his household that was called Landry, who had become totally paralyzed. He ended up visiting the giant sinkhole in the forest, and was totally healed in a moment. Baudouin’s wife Adela (aka Adele of France, daughter of King Robert II of France, mother-in-law of William the Conqueror and sister-in-law of the annoying Tostig) was impressed and grateful. So the Countess showed up and had the earth collapse excavated. To everyone’s surprise, the three girls’ bodies were found still incorrupt after two years, looking as if they’d fallen asleep and still kneeling, still with folded hands. They had obviously died instantly.

So Countess Adela had the girls’ bodies buried in a church she built in 1057, out in the forest near the earth collapse area. (The church stayed standing during medieval times, but no longer exists.) It was dedicated to Mary the Thrice Holy Virgin. She also founded an abbey nearby which was called Meyssen, Meessen, or Messines, which was supposed to mean “daughter” in Flemish. The new Benedictine convent started out with thirty nuns of noble birth, and twelve experienced canonesses (I guess to keep an eye on the thirty nuns). The convent and church became the center of a little town, and the shrine was famous for healings.

Countess Adela retired there after her husband’s death, and one night she saw an apparition of the Virgin Mary herself. Countess Adela possessed a splinter of the True Cross (showing that she had some kind of Byzantine diplomatic connections, or that she’d made off with her husband’s relic). Mary ordered her not to keep this relic to herself and the nuns, but to let all the faithful come see it. In the morning, the countess thought this was just a dream and ignored it, but she dreamed it twice more. The third time, Mary told her that she would receive a sign that it was a true command from God. In the morning, she would see a red thread running up to the altar of the church. She was to pick up this cord, wind it around her hand, and follow it with her reliquary wherever it went, until it ran out. That would be the route of the True Cross procession.

Countess Adela found the thread in the morning, and was so shocked and penitent about her disbelief that they say she followed the route on her hands and knees that first time, and the rest of the ladies in the convent followed her, including the normally-enclosed nuns; and the villagers and farmers who saw the procession followed too.

And so, every year on September the 14th, there was a procession along that route on the feast of the Exaltation of the True Cross, and they exhibited the little sacred splinter to the faithful. The procession continues even today. It is called the Grote Keer, or the Great Time, and it’s a nine-days procession. They process every day from September 14 until September 22. The procession route goes all around the town of Mesen for over 6 kilometers. At times the route travels through fields, where each year the farmers harvest a row of crops early to permit the procession to pass. During the Great Time, the church is open for pilgrims to visit.

Countess Adela ended up being canonized, as St. Adela of Mesen or St. Adele of Messines. Her old feastday is on January 8 and her new feastday is on September 8, so you get two namedays!

Flanders ended up going through a fair amount of both prosperity and wars. There were two big Battles of Messines in World War I, and the Germans and Allies blew the heck out of each other across their lines. Finally after weeks and months of secretly planting explosives underneath the hills that the Germans used to fortify their lines, the British forces blew them all up at once. The explosion was heard all the way in London, and the tremors from it were mistaken for an earthquake even by seismologists.

Three German soldiers were found in an underground bunker, dead from explosive shock but without a mark on them. They looked as if they had fallen asleep.

After the abbey died out and various wars had passed through, a smaller church had been built dedicated to St. Nicholas, with a little chapel to Our Lady. The upstairs bits have been reconstructed many times, but Countess St. Adela is still buried in its medieval crypt. The WWI Germans dug up the crypt again, by chance, and set up an aid station down in the crypt with Adela.

There’s apparently a sign that informs you that Corporal Adolf Hitler was treated there.

Not everybody makes good use of a miraculous second chance.

Pictures of St. Nicholas Church in Mesen, including the medieval crypt.

Picture of the modern copy of the medieval wooden statue of Our Lady of Mesen, which was destroyed during WWI.

Embroidery wonderfully returned to St. Nicholas Church and Our Lady of Messines.

A little porcelain devotional statue from Messines, also returned with gratitude.

A picture of Countess Adela and the apparition of Our Lady and the Christ Child, in Mons, at the parish of Notre Dame de Messines.

A statue of Onze Lieve Vrouwe de Mesen, in Mons, at the parish of Notre Dame de Messines, clearly modeled after the painting in the parish. You can clearly see the Christ Child holding the True Cross reliquary.

Weirdly, however, the city-folk have put Mesen totally out of their minds, even though it’s right down the road! The current legend is that the painting comes from Messina in Italy (also spelled “Messine” in French). But there’s poor St. Adela, large as life. It must be WWI trauma. Anyway, the painting used to be out in a cemetery chapel, but was moved inside the church after miracles happened. There’s a parish feast (“Ducasse de Messines”) for Our Lady of Messines on March 25, the feast of the Annunciation; it used to be on July 2, the feast of the Visitation.

A old Flemish novena of Our Lady of Mesen, from a holy card, which notes her in the 19th century as a patron against sciatica and gout:

(English translation via Google Translate and human smoothing:)

Whoever is in any emergency shall have recourse to Mary, and he will read the following prayer for nine days in church or at home, before a picture of Mary, in memory of the nine months that Christ Our Savior spent in the shelter of Our Lady’s virginity.

Prayer:
O blessed Virgin Mary, chosen from among all creatures by God the Father to be the mother of His only Son, Jesus — have pity on me. I ask thee for the unutterable joy which thou felt in thy Heart, and for the manifold graces which thou obtained, when the Fruit of Compassion was placed into thy virgin body. I now take recourse to thee. Stand by me in my emergency. I hope with certainty that thou shalt intercede for me.

Our Lady of Mesen, graciously hear the nine Hail Marys which I am about to read in thy honor. Help me with my request, if this favor will be useful and wholesome to me.

[And then you say nine Hail Marys.]

Novene ter eere van Onze Lieve Vrouw van Meesen

Alwie in eenigen nood verkeert zal zijne toevlucht tot Maria nemen, en negen dagen lang zal hij in eene kerk of te huis, voor een beeldeken van Maria het volgende gebed lezen, ter herinnering der negen maanden welke Christus Onze Zaligmaker doorgebracht heeft in den maagdelijken school van Onze Lieve Vrouw.

Gebed:
O gezegende Maagd Maria! tusschenalle schepselen door God den Vader uitverkoren om Moeder te worden van zijnen eenigen Zoon Jesus, heb medelijden metmij; ik bid U ef om door de nuitssprekilijke vreugd welke Gij in uw Hert gevoeld hebt en door de menigvuldige genaden welke Gij hebt verkregen wanneer de Vrucht van Bermhertigheid in uw maagdelijk lichaam verloefde. Ik neem nu mijnen toevlucht tot U, sta mij bij in mijnen nood, ik hoop vastelijk dat Gij mij zult verhooren.

Onze Lieve Vrouw van Meesen, aanhoor met welgevallen de negen Wees-Gegroeten welke ik ler uwer eere ga lezen, verkrijg mij wal ik verzoek indien nochtans deze gunst mij nuttig en heilzaam is… Amen.

[Negen Wees-Gegroeten.]

UPDATE: There’s a mysterious group of three virgin saints in Germany whose story and actual names have been forgotten; they’re known as the Three Beten. Possibly they are meant to be these three Flemish girls.

Also, Belgium sits on top of a lot of limestone and a big aquifer, so sinkholes do happen. One recently opened up next to the central train station in Brussels.

As written in: Once upon a time, a couple named Hezo and Ida, from a West Flanders town called Wervik or Wervicq, had three beautiful daughters named Helwigis, Jutta, and Giselindis. These three girls were walking in the forest when they were accosted by three foresters bent on rape, and not picky about whether they killed them in the process. The girls begged to be allowed to pray, and the amused gang let them. They prayed to Our Lady to die rather than be raped, and instantly the ground collapsed underneath them and buried them completely. The foresters were terrified and reported themselves to the authorities. They ended up becoming extremely penitent monks.

This is the sort of thing that happens in some European miracle stories, but this time the authorities reported to higher authorities, who interested themselves in the story. The Count of Flanders, Baudouin V, had a mayor of his household that was called Landry, who had become totally paralyzed. He ended up visiting the giant sinkhole in the forest, and was totally healed in a moment. Baudouin’s wife Adela (aka Adele of France, daughter of King Robert II of France, mother-in-law of William the Conqueror and sister-in-law of the annoying Tostig) was impressed and grateful. So the Countess showed up and had the earth collapse excavated. To everyone’s surprise, the three girls’ bodies were found still incorrupt after two years, looking as if they’d fallen asleep and still kneeling, still with folded hands. They had obviously died instantly.

So Countess Adela had the girls’ bodies buried in a church she built in 1057, out in the forest near the earth collapse area. (The church stayed standing during medieval times, but no longer exists.) It was dedicated to Mary the Thrice Holy Virgin. She also founded an abbey nearby which was called Meyssen, Meessen, or Messines, which was supposed to mean “daughter” in Flemish. The new Benedictine convent started out with thirty nuns of noble birth, and twelve experienced canonesses (I guess to keep an eye on the thirty nuns). The convent and church became the center of a little town, and the shrine was famous for healings.

Countess Adela retired there after her husband’s death, and one night she saw an apparition of the Virgin Mary herself. Countess Adela possessed a splinter of the True Cross (showing that she had some kind of Byzantine diplomatic connections, or that she’d made off with her husband’s relic). Mary ordered her not to keep this relic to herself and the nuns, but to let all the faithful come see it. In the morning, the countess thought this was just a dream and ignored it, but she dreamed it twice more. The third time, Mary told her that she would receive a sign that it was a true command from God. In the morning, she would see a red thread running up to the altar of the church. She was to pick up this cord, wind it around her hand, and follow it with her reliquary wherever it went, until it ran out. That would be the route of the True Cross procession.

Countess Adela found the thread in the morning, and was so shocked and penitent about her disbelief that they say she followed the route on her hands and knees that first time, and the rest of the ladies in the convent followed her, including the normally-enclosed nuns; and the villagers and farmers who saw the procession followed too.

And so, every year on September the 14th, there was a procession along that route on the feast of the Exaltation of the True Cross, and they exhibited the little sacred splinter to the faithful. The procession continues even today. It is called the Grote Keer, or the Great Time, and it’s a nine-days procession. They process every day from September 14 until September 22. The procession route goes all around the town of Mesen for over 6 kilometers. At times the route travels through fields, where each year the farmers harvest a row of crops early to permit the procession to pass. During the Great Time, the church is open for pilgrims to visit.

Countess Adela ended up being canonized, as St. Adela of Mesen or St. Adele of Messines. Her old feastday is on January 8 and her new feastday is on September 8, so you get two namedays!

Flanders ended up going through a fair amount of both prosperity and wars. There were two big Battles of Messines in World War I, and the Germans and Allies blew the heck out of each other across their lines. Finally after weeks and months of secretly planting explosives underneath the hills that the Germans used to fortify their lines, the British forces blew them all up at once. The explosion was heard all the way in London, and the tremors from it were mistaken for an earthquake even by seismologists.

Three German soldiers were found in an underground bunker, dead from explosive shock but without a mark on them. They looked as if they had fallen asleep.

After the abbey died out and various wars had passed through, a smaller church had been built dedicated to St. Nicholas, with a little chapel to Our Lady. The upstairs bits have been reconstructed many times, but Countess St. Adela is still buried in its medieval crypt. The WWI Germans dug up the crypt again, by chance, and set up an aid station down in the crypt with Adela.

There’s apparently a sign that informs you that Corporal Adolf Hitler was treated there.

Not everybody makes good use of a miraculous second chance.

Pictures of St. Nicholas Church in Mesen, including the medieval crypt.

Picture of the modern copy of the medieval wooden statue of Our Lady of Mesen, which was destroyed during WWI.

Embroidery wonderfully returned to St. Nicholas Church and Our Lady of Messines.

A little porcelain devotional statue from Messines, also returned with gratitude.

A picture of Countess Adela and the apparition of Our Lady and the Christ Child, in Mons, at the parish of Notre Dame de Messines.

A statue of Onze Lieve Vrouwe de Mesen, in Mons, at the parish of Notre Dame de Messines, clearly modeled after the painting in the parish. You can clearly see the Christ Child holding the True Cross reliquary.

Weirdly, however, the city-folk have put Mesen totally out of their minds, even though it’s right down the road! The current legend is that the painting comes from Messina in Italy (also spelled “Messine” in French). But there’s poor St. Adela, large as life. It must be WWI trauma. Anyway, the painting used to be out in a cemetery chapel, but was moved inside the church after miracles happened. There’s a parish feast (“Ducasse de Messines”) for Our Lady of Messines on March 25, the feast of the Annunciation; it used to be on July 2, the feast of the Visitation.

A old Flemish novena of Our Lady of Mesen, from a holy card, which notes her in the 19th century as a patron against sciatica and gout:

(English translation via Google Translate and human smoothing:)

Whoever is in any emergency shall have recourse to Mary, and he will read the following prayer for nine days in church or at home, before a picture of Mary, in memory of the nine months that Christ Our Savior spent in the shelter of Our Lady’s virginity.

Prayer:
O blessed Virgin Mary, chosen from among all creatures by God the Father to be the mother of His only Son, Jesus — have pity on me. I ask thee for the unutterable joy which thou felt in thy Heart, and for the manifold graces which thou obtained, when the Fruit of Compassion was placed into thy virgin body. I now take recourse to thee. Stand by me in my emergency. I hope with certainty that thou shalt intercede for me.

Our Lady of Mesen, graciously hear the nine Hail Marys which I am about to read in thy honor. Help me with my request, if this favor will be useful and wholesome to me.

[And then you say nine Hail Marys.]

Novene ter eere van Onze Lieve Vrouw van Meesen

Alwie in eenigen nood verkeert zal zijne toevlucht tot Maria nemen, en negen dagen lang zal hij in eene kerk of te huis, voor een beeldeken van Maria het volgende gebed lezen, ter herinnering der negen maanden welke Christus Onze Zaligmaker doorgebracht heeft in den maagdelijken school van Onze Lieve Vrouw.

Gebed:
O gezegende Maagd Maria! tusschenalle schepselen door God den Vader uitverkoren om Moeder te worden van zijnen eenigen Zoon Jesus, heb medelijden metmij; ik bid U ef om door de nuitssprekilijke vreugd welke Gij in uw Hert gevoeld hebt en door de menigvuldige genaden welke Gij hebt verkregen wanneer de Vrucht van Bermhertigheid in uw maagdelijk lichaam verloefde. Ik neem nu mijnen toevlucht tot U, sta mij bij in mijnen nood, ik hoop vastelijk dat Gij mij zult verhooren.

Onze Lieve Vrouw van Meesen, aanhoor met welgevallen de negen Wees-Gegroeten welke ik ler uwer eere ga lezen, verkrijg mij wal ik verzoek indien nochtans deze gunst mij nuttig en heilzaam is… Amen.

[Negen Wees-Gegroeten.]

UPDATE: There’s a mysterious group of three virgin saints in Germany whose story and actual names have been forgotten; they’re known as the Three Beten. Possibly they are meant to be these three Flemish girls.

Also, Belgium sits on top of a lot of limestone and a big aquifer, so sinkholes do happen. One recently opened up next to the central train station in Brussels.
As written in:
https://suburbanbanshee.wordpress.com/2014/09/21/the-strange-tale-of-our-lady-of-messines/

Notes:

~SEALING_SPOUSE: Also shown as SealSp ARIZO.