TALVACE, Count William III b. Abt 1090 Alençon, Orne, Normandy, France d. 30 Jun 1171 Alencon, Orne, Normandy, France

Abt 1090 - 1171 (81 years)

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Name	TALVACE, William
Prefix	Count
Suffix	III
Birth	Abt 1090	Alençon, Orne, Normandy, France
Gender	Male
Death	30 Jun 1171	Alencon, Orne, Normandy, France
Burial	Jul 1171	Alençon, Orne, Normandy, France
WAC	20 Jan 1933
_TAG	Temple
Headstones	Submit Headstone Photo
Person ID	I48641	Joseph Smith Sr and Lucy Mack Smith
Last Modified	19 Aug 2021

Father	BELLEME, Earl Robert de II , b. Abt 1052, Mortaigne, Nord, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, France Mortaigne, Nord, Nord-Pas-de-Calais, Franced. 8 May 1131, Charroux-d'Allier, Allier, Auvergne, France (Age 79 years)
Family ID	F18185	Group Sheet \| Family Chart

Family BOURGOGNE, Hélène-Alix de , b. Nov 1080, Bourgogne-Franche-Comté, France Bourgogne-Franche-Comté, Franced. 28 Feb 1141, Alençon, Orne, Lower Normandy, France (Age 60 years)

Marriage 1115

Children

+	1. TALVAS, Countess Ela Adelia de , b. 2 Apr 1120, Alençon, Orne, Basse-Normandie, France Alençon, Orne, Basse-Normandie, Franced. 4 Dec 1174, Bradenstoke, Wiltshire, England (Age 54 years)

Family ID F15952 Group Sheet | Family Chart

Last Modified 24 Jan 2022

Notes

His father was arrested by Henry I and imprisoned for life.[5] William was naturally driven by this to oppose King Henry. In June of 1119, however, Henry I restored all his father's lands in Normandy. Sometime prior to 1126, William resigned the county of Ponthieu to his son Guy but retained the title of count.[3] In 1135 Henry I again confiscated all his Norman lands to which William responded by joining count Geoffrey of Anjou in his invasion of Normandy after Henry I's death[3] The Gesta Normannorum Ducum says that they had five children, three sons and two daughters. Europäische Stammtafeln, however, shows eleven.[2] Per Wikipedia.org--WILLIAM III, COUNT OF PONTIEU.

Son of Robert of Bellême and Agnes of Ponthieu, William III, also known Talvas, had, since 1105, succeeded his mother the County of Ponthieu. His father took him to the lordship and retained the enjoy

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/NORTHERN FRANCE.htm

GUILLAUME [I] "Talvas" de Ponthieu, son of ROBERT de Montgommery "de Bellême" Sire d'Alençon, Comte de Ponthieu, Earl of Shrewsbury & his wife Agnès de Ponthieu (-30 Jun 1171). His parentage is given by Orderic Vitalis[870]. He succeeded his father [4 Mar 1106/1110][871] as Comte de Ponthieu. "Wilelmus comes Pontivi" confirmed the donation of the church of Saint-Léonard de Bellême to Marmoutier by charter dated to [1112/14][872]. Henry I King of England restored Comte Guillaume to his father's lands in Normandy in Jun 1119[873]. He resigned Ponthieu in [1126] in favour of his son Guy. "Gulielmus comes Pontivorum" donated property to the abbey of Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte for the souls of "his predecessors earl Roger and Mabel his wife, count Guy and Adda his wife, his father Robert de Belesmo and his mother Agnes and…Ela his wife and of their sons two of them called Robert and two William and two Enguerrand and Mabel his daughter" by charter dated 1127[874]. Robert of Torigny records that Henry II King of England granted "castrum Alenceium et Rocam Mabiriæ" to "Willermus Talavacius comes Sagiensis et filius eius Johannes et iterum Johannes nepos eius filius Guidonis primogeniti sui comitis Pontivi" in 1166[875]. Robert of Torigny records the death in 1171 of "Guillermus Talavercius comes Pontivi" and the succession of "Johannes nepos suus…ex Guidone primogenito suo"[876]. The Obituaire of Saint-Martin de Séez records the death 30 Jun of "Guillelmus Pontivorum comes"[877]. The necrology of the monastery of Ouche records the death "30 Jun" of "Willelmus comes Talevat"[878].

[m firstly ---. The name of Guillaume´s supposed first wife is not known. This first marriage is strongly suggested by the marriage date of Guillaume´s daughter Clémence. She is named in Jul 1128 with her son "Gaufrido primogenito" (see below). The addition of the word "primogenito" suggests that there was at least one other younger child at that date. This would place her marriage in late 1125 at the very latest. It is extremely unlikely, therefore, that she could have born from Guillaume´s marriage to Hélie de Bourgogne, the death of whose first husband is recorded in late Apr 1112. The other indication is the unlikelihood that Hélie de Bourgogne could have had eleven children by her second husband, considering her own estimated birth date.]

m [secondly] ([late 1112/1115]) as her second husband, HELIE de Bourgogne, widow of BERTRAND de Toulouse Count of Tripoli, daughter of EUDES I Duke of Burgundy [Capet] & his wife Sibylle de Bourgogne [Comté] ([1080]-28 Feb 1141). She is named by Orderic Vitalis, who also records her parentage, her two marriages and the names of her eldest sons by each marriage[879]. "Gulielmus comes Pontivorum" donated property to the abbey of Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte for the souls of "…Ela his wife…" by charter dated 1127[880]. "Guido comes Pontivi" donated property to Cîteaux with the consent of "pater eius Willelmus comes…et mater eius Hela" by charter dated 18 Dec 1139[881]. "Wido comes Pontivii" confirmed freedoms over his lands, with the consent of "patris mei Willermi et domine Ele matris mee, fratris mei Johannis et uxoris mee Ide et filii mei Johannis" by undated charter[882].

Comte Guillaume [I] & his [first] wife had [two] children:

1. CLEMENCE de Ponthieu (-30 Nov before 1189). Guillaume de Jumièges records that an unnamed daughter of Guillaume Talvas married "Joel fils de Gauthier de Mayenne"[883]. "Juhello principe Meduane et uxore eius Clementia et filio eorum Gaufrido primogenito" subscribed a charter dated 12 and 26 Jul 1128, under which property was restored to the abbey of Mont-Saint-Michel[884]. m (before [1126]) JUHEL Sire de Mayenne, son of GAUTHIER Seigneur de Mayenne & his wife Aline --- (-23 Dec 1161, bur Evroux).

2. MABILE de Ponthieu . "Gulielmus comes Pontivorum" donated property to the abbey of Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte for the souls of "Ela his wife and of their sons two of them called Robert and two William and two Enguerrand and Mabel his daughter" by charter dated 1127[885]. If this translation is accurate, the wording suggests that Mabile was not the daughter of Guillaume´s known wife Hélie.

3. PHILIPPA de Ponthieu (-before 1149, bur Abbaye de Saint-Martin de Sées). The primary source which confirms her parentage has not yet been identified. It is suggested that she may have been born from her father´s supposed first marriage only to reduce the number of children attributed to his wife Hélie, whose age suggests that she could not have been the mother of ten children.

Comte Guillaume [I] & his wife had nine children:

4. GUY [II] de Ponthieu (-Ephesus [25 Dec] 1147). His parentage is recorded by Orderic Vitalis[886]. He succeeded before 1129 as Comte de Ponthieu.

5. GUILLAUME de Ponthieu (-after 1166). "Gulielmus comes Pontivorum" donated property to the abbey of Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte for the souls of "Ela his wife and of their sons two of them called Robert and two William and two Enguerrand and Mabel his daughter" by charter dated 1127[887]. Comte d'Alençon 1166.

6. ROBERT de Ponthieu . "Gulielmus comes Pontivorum" donated property to the abbey of Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte for the souls of "Ela his wife and of their sons two of them called Robert and two William and two Enguerrand and Mabel his daughter" by charter dated 1127[888]. 1127.

7. ROBERT de Garennes (-1171 or after). "Gulielmus comes Pontivorum" donated property to the abbey of Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte for the souls of "Ela his wife and of their sons two of them called Robert and two William and two Enguerrand and Mabel his daughter" by charter dated 1127[889]. Monk before 1147.

8. GUILLAUME de Ponthieu . "Gulielmus comes Pontivorum" donated property to the abbey of Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte for the souls of "Ela his wife and of their sons two of them called Robert and two William and two Enguerrand and Mabel his daughter" by charter dated 1127[890].

9. ENGUERRAND de Ponthieu . "Gulielmus comes Pontivorum" donated property to the abbey of Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte for the souls of "Ela his wife and of their sons two of them called Robert and two William and two Enguerrand and Mabel his daughter" by charter dated 1127[891].

10. ENGUERRAND de Ponthieu . "Gulielmus comes Pontivorum" donated property to the abbey of Saint-Sauveur-le-Vicomte for the souls of "Ela his wife and of their sons two of them called Robert and two William and two Enguerrand and Mabel his daughter" by charter dated 1127[892].

11. JEAN de Ponthieu (-1191). "Wido comes Pontivii" confirmed freedoms over his lands, with the consent of "patris mei Willermi et domine Ele matris mee, fratris mei Johannis et uxoris mee Ide et filii mei Johannis" by undated charter[893]. He succeeded in 1141 as Comte d'Alençon. Robert of Torigny records that Henry II King of England granted "castrum Alenceium et Rocam Mabiriæ" to "Willermus Talavacius comes Sagiensis et filius eius Johannes et iterum Johannes nepos eius filius Guidonis primogeniti sui comitis Pontivi" in 1166[894]. Robert of Torigny records the death in 1171 of "Guillermus Talavercius comes Pontivi" and the succession of "Johannes comes filius eius" in the lands which he held from the English king "in Normannia et in Cenomannensi pago"[895].

12. ELA de Ponthieu (-10 Oct 1174). Guillaume de Jumièges records that an unnamed daughter of Guillaume Talvas married "Guillaume de Warenne comte de Surrey"[896]. The primary source which confirms her name has not yet been identified but, if it is correct, it suggests that she must have been born from Guillaume´s marriage to Hélie de Bourgogne. Her second marriage is confirmed by Robert of Torigny who refers to the wife of "comes Patricius" as "filia Guillermi comitis Pontivi, matre comitisse de Warenna"[897]. m firstly WILLIAM de Warenne Earl of Surrey, son of WILLIAM de Warenne Earl of Surrey & his wife Elisabeth de Vermandois [Capet] ([1119]-killed in battle Laodicea 19 Jan 1148). m secondly (1152 or before) as his second wife, PATRICK Earl of Salisbury, son of WALTER FitzEdward de Salisbury & his wife Maud de Chaources [Chaworth] (-killed in battle Poitou [7 Apr] 1168, bur Poitiers, Abbaye de Saint-Hilaire).